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May 02, 2011

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Carolyn

Oh. My. GAWD, Mama. Could not have said this better myself. I absolutely agree with you on every single point you've made. I am struggling with this - on the one hand, I'm very happy/relieved that we brought down such a fucktard... on the other, I am being realistic here and am worried that acts of terrorism will only increase tenfold in the immediate future, because AQ will view Bin Laden's death as a revenge crusade against us.

And yes, the display in front of the White House last night? Stoopid.

I was thinking to myself while driving into work this morning, as the local radio stations blasted patriotic music during talk show breaks, "When did we become a nation that unequivocally rejoices in the death of another human? Granted, he's an evil beast, but we are no better than terrorists if we find peace, comfort and happiness in death."

It's just effed up, all around. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to feel about this.

Leslie

You might want to check out Where Men Win Glory by Jon Krakauer for some good info and history on bin Laden and the Taliban. Al Qaeda will be in shambles without bin Laden's money and political connections. And for all the American blood he's shed in the U.S. mainland, I might have done a little dance, too, especially if my child had died in the Twin Towers, the Pentagon or Flight 93.

Chris

Well I certainly don't think capturing UBL would be the victory for Obama that eliminating him has been. From what I understand, this was put together as a kill mission, and frankly that's a much better option from a political stance.

Look at all the lumps Obama's taken over KSM and think about how much worse it would've been for bin Laden. Where do you keep him? Where (or do you) put him on trial? There's also the very real possibility of overseas Americans being taken hostage in an attempt to trade for his freedom.

Regarding how to fight terrorism, I think yesterday was the perfect example. Good intel, spec ops, and a few spooks. I think terrorism is completely fightable (word?), it's just that Big Army hasn't been the right tool for the job.

Special Forces soldiers are uniquely trained on the local language and culture of the area, and are trained to work by, with, and through local population in order to do their business. I mean the locals know who's who, and it's that ability to understand them and gain their trust that makes all the difference in fighting an unconventional warfare campaign.

I mean if you look at checkpoints in Iraq as an example, soldiers would use "our" hand signal to tell Iraqis to stop (arm out with fingers extended and palm facing toward the individual or group), however that means "welcome" to them. Think of how many civilians died (and the rage and distrust it created in the local population) because our conventional troops didn't have any cultural training and understanding of their AO.

Now that's a whole conversation in its own right and conventional troops now receive some cultural training (still not to the level of SF), but it's really too little too late for a population that is largely distrustful of them.

But back to the original subject, that's really the key to defeating terrorism - working the local population in order to gain trust and gather intel and then use a small force in a direct action mission.

As far as the reaction to the killing of UBL, I can understand that, I suppose. I didn't feel the need to go run around in a crowd and wave my flag. I just sat here on my couch and thought about what it meant for everyone in service, and I really just felt relieved for them and the family members of the fallen.

I remember when I was at Fort Benning for infantry school and how excited everyone would be when we'd get word that WMD had possibly been found over in Iraq. Not because WMD is a good thing or whatever, but because we needed to believe that we were doing the right thing.

To me, yesterday's events provide closure for a lot of people, especially for those who've been a part of OEF, but even the Iraq campaign, too. I feel like had we never captured or killed bin Laden, our veterans and families of the fallen would always feel that their sacrifices had been in vain. They just need to believe that we're doing the right thing, you know?

It was personally rewarding (?) in a sense, too. I was injured in training, which cut my time in the Army short, so I didn't get to deploy with my unit. Since then I've felt guilty for not going with them, betrayed because there was no WMD in Iraq and because we've been staying in A-stan while knowing full well bin Laden wasn't there (I mean everyone knew he was in Pakistan - just not that deep, but that's another story), then feeling guilty about feeling betrayed because I never had to sacrifice the way my friends in service did.

So in a lot of ways, I was just very relieved to get the news. I completely agree that UBL is basically just a symbol and that AQ Central isn't anywhere near the threat it was a decade ago, but I'm just glad that finally we can say our fallen and wounded warriors didn't sacrifice in vain, and I also think it's a model for how we need to pursue terrorism going forward, as paramilitary and SF missions and not using conventional occupation forces.

Badpie24

There will always be war and always be terrorism. This is how is has been for thousands of years. Nothing is ever going to change that.

I for one am in the "fuck yeah" camp when it comes to his death. Very rarely do crimes such as his gain even a small measure of closure in the grand scheme of things. Is it a very small victory? Yes. Is it a victory nonetheless - I think so.

You say you're upset that people are celebrating and maybe it is in poor taste to do so so openly, but if as you say this war is still ongoing, which it is, then enjoying victory over one battle won is important I think.

As for there always being other threats. Of course there is. There always will be. Doesn't mean that taking one out is any less awesome for everyone and the world in general. I mean I haven't heard anyone actually say "we won the war on terror." No one has said that. That would be stupid.

Tucker

Well written...

-T

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